Just curious...What is everyone doing about the new 402(f) notices? Are you taking the IRS models as is, combining them into a single document, updating the old notice with new info?

Taking them as is and combining into a single document, with some VERY minor modification.

Belgarath - Sounds like you are doing the common sense thing. Why wasn't it done that way in the 1st place?

That was my argument as well, why not one notice?!?!? We will be combing into one doc!

Certainly don't need the Roth portion of your combined Notice if there's no Roth availability. What's wrong with just handing out the appropriate notice--Roth, non-Roth, or both--depending on the accounts the terminated participant has?

Is your single Notice now 14 pages long (or 6 pages of 8-point type)?

Nope, only 7 pages front and back.

We combined it because we didn't want any potential errors where the wrong one got sent out with the wrong plan type.

We found that printing it 2 columns per page, like a 2 column newspaper, requires fewer sheets of paper.

It can be a little fussy to edit, but IMO it's easier to read, and as I said, takes less paper. And we print both sides of the paper.

OK, Bel. 14 pages. But, I can see it preventing potential problems.

We also print them 2-sided. We have more and more of our larger plans with both pre-tax and roth so it would be a hassle (and kill many trees) to provide 2 notices to all the terminees. Not to mention if you forgot one or sent the wrong one as Belgarth mentioned. Simplification is the name of the game....

Is there a resource for an MS Word version of the new notices than can downloaded or copied and saved and edited?

You can copy under Windows Explorer, which sends to clipboard. Then open a Word document and paste as found under "Edit". Then save as word document.

Taking the two notices and putting them in two tables in a word doc worked for me. The draft copy had very few adjustments to it. Roth on one side and non-roth on the other with 6 point font made it 5 pages total.

Isn't there are rule about it being readable? 6 point type would negate that possibility for most of us!

I've consolidated the notices to eliminate duplication and have this down to a single 5 page document in 8.5 font. If you would like a copy, email me.

Our previous STN had I swear 3pt font! You seriously need a magnifying glass to read it!

Hi,

First thing i don't understand that why we not get the whole document together.
and also few updates and corrections are required in the doc.

Sieve answered that in post 5, above.


For those of us who did not read carefully enough, what errors do you find?

This probably isn't news to anyone on these boards, but ...

while the federal rules eliminate the $100,000 income limit for conversions/rollovers to Roths, some income-taxing states have not federalized their rules and still have severe penalties.

The federal model notices specifically state that state laws are not discussed, but if you are in a state where the income limit still applies, it might save you some later troubles and explaining if you put something in the notice about how the over-$100,000 people can be charged on-going penalties.

For example, "Beginning in 2010, you can do a rollover to a Roth IRA regardless of your income, but not in Wisconsin."

GMK-

Do you have a list of non-conforming states?

Sorry, MSN. I've looked for such a list but haven't found it yet. Maybe someone else out there has one.

I think you have to contact your own state's department of revenue or check their web site to find out whether the state has passed any conforming legislation.

And then, check if the state left any items unconformed. For example, states need money now, so they may require a 2010 distribution to be included as taxable income in 2010, rather than allowing it to be spread over 2011 and 2012.

It's probably worth doing the research, so you can edit your rollover options notice, if necessary, to warn the $100k+ folks before they get hit with something like a 2% state penalty for excess contribution to a Roth every year until the excess contribution is withdrawn or a state penalty for early withdrawal. Seems like it would be easier to tell them beforehand than to try to explain afterwards why you didn't put it in the notice, but that's just me.

"Your Rollover Options" no longer needs footnotes in Wisconsin:

http://www.jsonline.com/business/87687797.html

(Please pardon the generally fun-to-read but misinformed and/or grumpy comments following the article.)