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Rags
Is there any scenario under which the contributions made under 401(k), 401(m) and employer QNECS can be aggregated for coverage testing (contrary to 1.410(b)-7(c))?

Division 1/ Plan A has 401k and 401m contributions.
Division 2/ Plan B has 401k, 401m and QNEC.
Division 3/ Plan C offers only a QNEC.

Thanks for your help.
SoCalActuary
QUOTE (Rags @ Jul 28 2009, 06:26 AM) *
Is there any scenario under which the contributions made under 401(k), 401(m) and employer QNECS can be aggregated for coverage testing (contrary to 1.410(b)-7(c))?

Division 1/ Plan A has 401k and 401m contributions.
Division 2/ Plan B has 401k, 401m and QNEC.
Division 3/ Plan C offers only a QNEC.

Thanks for your help.

The 401(k) and 401(m) discrimination tests are applied using a different model to test discrimination. The employer contributions in the QNEC may be treated as 401(k) items if they are simply corrective QNEC to pass a failed 401(k) test.
But Plan C cannot be such a plan. It must be covered under 401(a)(4) testing. You did not explain whether Plan B has QNEC as a separate recurring source of funds - subject to 401(a)(4), or if Plan B only has corrective QNECs.
Rags
The QNECs that I refer to are actually profit sharing contributions. But for the sake of simplicity, let's just consider Divisions A and B.

1.410(b)-7(c) says that the portion of a plan that is a section 401(k) plan and the portion that is not a section 401(k) plan are treated as separate plans for purposes of section 410(b).

1.410(b)-7(d) says that an employer may not aggregate portions of a plan that are disaggregated under the rules of paragraph (c) of this section.

I want to know if there was a scenario that would allow this aggregation and hence, contradicts these sections.
SoCalActuary
QUOTE (Rags @ Jul 28 2009, 08:52 AM) *
The QNECs that I refer to are actually profit sharing contributions. But for the sake of simplicity, let's just consider Divisions A and B.

1.410(b)-7(c) says that the portion of a plan that is a section 401(k) plan and the portion that is not a section 401(k) plan are treated as separate plans for purposes of section 410(b).

1.410(b)-7(d) says that an employer may not aggregate portions of a plan that are disaggregated under the rules of paragraph (c) of this section.

I want to know if there was a scenario that would allow this aggregation and hence, contradicts these sections.


No.

The contributions and/or balances are aggregated for 410(b) average benefit percentage testing only. They do not help you pass the test for minimum participation percentages using the profit sharing contributions.
Tom Poje
just to make clear on a couple of points - since the answer provided seemed to deal more with nondiscrim rather than coverage.
1. there is no minimum participation test for a DC plan.
2. A QNEC is still a NEC (non elective) so for purposes of coverage may only be used in the nonelective coverage test - never in the ADP coverage test or ACP coverage test.
3. if you aggregate for coverage, then you must aggrgate for ADP testing - I can only assume that is why you are giving the folks in C a QNEC????
4. if you are performing a(4) testing [not coverage], you have to test with and without QNECs
5. how a DC question ended up under DB is beyond me.
Rags
QUOTE (Tom Poje @ Jul 28 2009, 01:15 PM) *
5. how a DC question ended up under DB is beyond me.


unsure.gif You're right!? I must have been in this section and just hit post.

Thanks for your responses.
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